Discuss Tabletop Game Design With The Distilled Team!
Good news Tabletoppers! We are officially launching a new blog series, Developer Discussions! We will be sitting down with some of our favorite game designers and developers to talk about their creations, their experiences, and their love of all things board games! This week, we Zoomed in with designer Dave Beck and scripter Seth Berrier to talk about their game, Distilled. We featured Distilled before on our second edition of Tabletop Talks and it is one of our favorite up-and-coming games out there.
Here’s our interview with the brilliant minds behind Distilled:
Can you start us off with an overview of your game, the basics, maybe some points of inspiration? What were you trying to do when you came up with Distilled?
Dave: The game began in the Fall of 2019, when I was on sabbatical from my university. Seth and I actually both work at the same university (University of Wisconsin, Stout) in game design.
I was over in Scotland during this sabbatical and was planning on doing some augmented reality 3D Modeling and VR work, which is more my background. And I’ve been a big whiskey fan for a while and very much enjoy distillery tours and a good dram of scotch or a good dram of whiskey. And about a month into my time over there, I wasn’t looking for it, but I couldn’t sleep one night and I had a light bulb moment. I had this vision of a deck-building game where I would put ingredients together, mix it up, then take the top and bottom card off (to replicate the process of distilling itself). I stayed up all night working on this game and thinking about the idea of using a distillery setting for an engine-building game all while distilling whiskey. I playtested it the next day and fell in love with the idea and it’s only grown since then.
Seth: I came to it initially as a player, I’ve played Distilled once in person before the pandemic hit. Then, we started throwing around ideas about putting it online. And with Tabletop Simulator we had this great, deep scripting language. And my mantra all along has been to try and take what might be awkward in TTS but not in person and fix that so that it's overall a smooth experience. And the more I got into the scripting tools, the more I learned that was possible.
As a programmer, I feel like the connection to the physics sandbox that Tabletop Simulator is...that wonderful feeling when you flip the table...is like steroids especially when you can script it all.
When you were imagining, designing, or implementing this game, was there anything specific that you wanted to bring to tabletop gaming with Distilled?
Dave: For me, I've always liked a story, I appreciate a good story, but I appreciate a good theme as well. I also appreciate good artwork, so my goal with Distilled was to create something that would bring all of those together. Bring gameplay together with art with an appreciation for a visual tableau before you, as well as a rich theme that lets you learn a little bit more about what you are doing. That’s also where Erik Evanson, our artist comes in, he’s added all of our visual elements you see, whether its illustrations, or graphic design.
And as I was making it too, I realized that there doesn’t exist a game out there that talks about distilling alcohol as the main goal and activity, while also engaging with the art and science of it.
Seth: I think the multicultural angle to it is something that I’ve really appreciated as I’ve seen it grow and more of these interesting spirits come into play. And I think games that are willing to take that global perspective are fascinating. They help me get out of my own little corner of the world. That is a really important part of Distilled’s identity.
Can you give me a list of the spirits that you can distill and how you acquire them?
Dave: So the idea is that you have inherited this distillery from a distant family relative. And you are not a distiller, you don’t know how to make much. You can make moonshine, vodka, and some sort of secret family recipe. For there you have to get the ability to make other spirits:
Interviewer’s note: The list of spirits you can distill is massive and every single one comes with a different identity of a person you inherited it from! To save time we're going to list a few highlights, keeping in mind that future expansions will introduce even more distilling options.
Gin, rum, soju, sochu, cachaca, tequila, brandy, and regional whiskeys from all over the world!
As much as this is an utterly unique game, I was wondering if there were any other significant points of inspiration from other games? Any other unexpected places?
Dave: I have a profound and deep respect for Jamie Stegmeier and his work as part of Stonemaier games. Although Distilled is nothing like Viticulture, (it’s a worker placement game), the fact that he made something about that specific type of industry has definitely inspired me to consider how that is approached. Especially because it is a game and a theme that can be enjoyed for people who don't necessarily drink, which has also been a very important goal for Distilled. Our game is about the science and the business, not the drinking. It is not mentioned in the entire game that you have to drink, obviously people are going to do that, but it's by no means part of it. My kids could play it.
Additionally, looking at something like Wingspan from Stonemeier and the value of something like fun facts on cards. In Distilled, every single card has some fact on it about distilling or history, while also building that tableau.
Seth: What I’ve found really interesting in terms of inspiration is just watching this game morph. As I'm working on the mechanics and the scripting, Dave will come up and tell me it needs to be a drafting game, that it's just not working as a deck builder. Then he comes back to me and says, no it actually needs to be a market buying phase game. And so there’s a lot of dead code I could share with you. But as I watch it change while also playing all these other games, I can just see so much from so many of these other great games that has seeped into this a little bit everywhere while it still feels unique and different.
I want to pivot to something maybe a little less exciting and get into the business logistics side of Distilled. What have you done to promote and market Distilled? What has worked well and what would you not recommend to a first-time developer?
Dave: For almost the last year, I’ve known that I’ve needed to use TTS to the best of my ability and to do anything possible to get people to the workshop page. And we’ve been doing well. So usually what I try to do every few months is ask Seth to do a big push. A big and polished release but also knowing that we're going to continue to do things in the background. And once that happens, I try to post it everywhere I can. I use the big three of social media and announce when there is a big update, but we’ll also try to have Seth blog about the coding side of it. I also try to advertise for playtesters and be active in Discord channels where we all can convene, play, and share thoughts as a small community. So really a lot of social media but also balanced with a push to get people signed up for Kickstarter because that's really the ultimate goal. I also really do like to credit TTS for a lot of the successful buildup for the eventual Kickstarter launch.
Seth: Also credit to Erik, our artist. Every week, he’s doing social media posts highlighting the art and stories behind Distilled. So we try to balance our efforts to create that content so that I’m blogging, Dave’s blogging, and Eriks coming at us with these weekly updates. That way there is all of this content that Dave can then put in front of people and get them excited about the game!
I think that's a great segue into more of the Tabletop Simulator specific questions that I have. Seth, could you just quickly run me through the TTS Simulator specific design process for Distilled?
Seth: As I started exploring it, I started not so much from a component standpoint, but from an interaction standpoint. You know it seemed like how to get components into the game was very straight forward, and that something TTS excels at. As long as you use the tools that are available from TTS right up front, then it's easy to get your content in there. I think what becomes daunting is dealing with the fact that it is so real. You have a 3D space and this big open blank table. How is everything going to lay out? How do you control scale?
So Dave brought all of the content in and he's made really good use of Component Studio for that. It's an incredibly useful way to bring it in. But, once it's in there it's not going to take on a life of its own if you dont at least dabble into the scripting a little bit. And that's where, for someone like me, I was a kid in a candy store. When I saw how simple it was to sign things together and how well it fit in with modern programming practices, I found all I really had to do to figure it all out, was to just play.
For example, the first thing I did was put a board down, throw a deck of cards on it and figure out how many crazy things I could do with a deck of cards. Just like I was performing card tricks for someone. I realized how powerful it was. This is a real world where physics is running all the time and so the fact that everything was in there and that the API of TTS had anticipated that and put the tools in your hands to be able to execute that was amazing.
It was great to be able to script out the set up steps and allow people to get right into the game, to build up your distillery and recipe collection. Any time I had a chance to take the tedious stuff out and make things flow, those were the good opportunities for me to sink my teeth into it. It was really unusual but really rewarding in that sense.
Dave: So something I want to mention is the fact that honestly, TTS can never replicate the experience of playing a game in person. Some people need that physical and tactile experience. But, what that TTS can do that real life can never do is automate setup, eliminate clean up. So what Seth and TTS have been able to do is fill in those gaps that have been lacking in the real world. And what's nice about that is that it's always going to be relevant going forward. When I iterate now, I don't even bother printing stuff out any more. Why would I do that when I could do it so quickly on TTS.
I think that’s a nice transition to the topic of playtesting. Pre and post pandemic, how have you conducted your playtesting for Distilled?How has that involved TTS?
Dave: I keep data on all of my playtests, and at this point, I'm probably something around 150 playtests. And about 125 of those are in TTS. Of course, the difference is that, before this, it was all local, it was all people that I know. For example when Seth and a few more friends would just come over to my house. I’m like “yeah that's great, I know these people,” but the beauty of TTS is that I’m connected with people all over the world. For example, the developer of the game, who’s named Richard Woods, lives in the UK. He loves the game and loves being able to dive in from at home. I would never have met Richard if he hadn’t been able to try Distilled at the UK con that I was able to attend because of TTS.
It's a presence at cons and meeting people that way. It's a presence with both playtesting and game designers which I connect with through Discord groups that do that. It's an amazing space because I can just sit back and watch. It's also great because, normally you might say this is a bad thing, but in TTS, they don't see me, they don't know who I am. They hear me of course, but I like to think that they're a little more honest and frank with their feedback.
It’s simply the expanse, the number of people who have played, hundreds, when before it would have been more like dozens. TTS has really allowed me to expand that reach globally, not just locally or regionally.
I think that leads us next to your launch process. Both involving and not involving TTS, I would love to hear what you have done to launch your game and an idea of where you think Distilled might be going in the future?
Dave: I’ve been able to use TTS to participate in these competitions, where I would submit the game and a recording of myself speaking and demoing the game. That was important to our launch to be able to capture video of me playing. I also have been able to capture videos from playtests (obviously with permission) which has been really nice. That can all stream to Discord and Facebook, and Youtube. So it's not just those playing the game that have been able to watch and experience the game.
For the Kickstarter launch, it has really been me and Seth’s goal to have a finished and polished game that we can advertise on the Kickstarter page so that everyone can give it a try. So they can kick the tires before they decide to invest. I’m also sure that there will be previewers and reviewers that will play the TTS version. I have already played through the game with some potential previewers before they decided whether or not they were going to cover it.
Some creators don't want their game to be played until it's basically in a spot where it's ready to be released. I just would much rather get the feedback from the fans and players and build that community while we work towards that final goal. We want people to realize that their feedback is actually going to determine the future of a game, which I think is a really important thing to communicate to players.
Seth: The idea of early access is a no brainer.
Before we wrap up, I would love to hear any thoughts you have, anecdotes you want to share, things you wish people asked you more about Distilled, Whiskey puns, etc?
Dave: July 6th is going to be our Kickstarter Launch and we're going to continue to iterate and add stuff as we move forward. We have some really great ideas for expansions as we move down the road that Seth doesn’t even know about yet.
The great thing is that we’re going to launch our Kickstarter, people are going to play it, it will hopefully be successful, and we'll send out copies. But at the same time, we're going to start playtesting the expansions because there is no reason we can’t. Even though our official launch date is July 6th, it doesn't end there. That's the beauty of TTS is that it continues to evolve organically in the digital space while we also try to curate these physical experiences and then ship them off to the public.
Overall, the most common feedback we get is that no one has seen a game that marries theme and mechanics like Distilled. Ideally, you can't tell where mechanics stop and the theme begins.
Seth: Especially if you’ve got a nice glass of Scotch with you!
Keep Up With The Latest Distilled News!
Be sure to check out Distilled's Website, the Official Distilled TTS Mod, and their Kickstarter when it launches July 6th!
Also follow Erik on Instagram (@eaevensen) and all of Distilled's various social meida pages: Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Discord, BGG
